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DVD File size limitations
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MJB



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Pensacola Florida

PostPosted: Sat 29 Mar 2003, 20:23    Post subject: DVD File size limitations Reply with quote

Using the bit rate calculator I encoded a project that was 166 minutes long. Using the Forced CBR at 2/mbits I made a DVD that was 3.76 in size.

On playback the video stops and the music keeps going at the 69 minute mark.

In the past this problem meant that the file was too big for the DVD. However now that is not the problem.

Do you have any ideas as to why this would happen? The DVD is 4.7 Gig. Project settings in DVDit PE put the file size at 3.76 Gig. And, the quality at that bit rate did not suffer a bit. It was a film transfer that I catured from VHS.

Thank You, Mike
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RMN
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Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 587
Location: Lisboa, Portugal

PostPosted: Tue 1 Apr 2003, 16:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that the sound keeps playing is very odd, since, on the disc, the video and the audio are multiplexed (interleaved). Do you still have the MPEG-2 video file you used to make the DVD? If so, play it and make sure it's ok.

If you exported from Premiere to TMPGEnc using AVISynth, I've found that sometimes the file can become "broken" if Premiere tries to auto-save during the export (the solution is to disable auto-save, or to make sure you save manually before starting the export).

If the video file is incomplete, try encoding it again. If the video file is complete, try playing the disc in different players (ex., using PowerDVD, on your PC), to see if it always stops in the same place, or if it sometimes plays correctly. Could be a media problem, such as a scratch on the disc (but the player should be able to play correctly again after the media defect).

RMN
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MJB



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Pensacola Florida

PostPosted: Thu 3 Apr 2003, 15:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a new one for you. While using Avisynth and Tmpg I'm encoding a 166 minute video using your bit rate specs.

After 14:51 with 2:54 left to go I got a box saying " Illegal Floating Decimal Point Calculation Order"

The encode was 83% complete. This is a really bad situation as time is a wasting here.

Thank You
Mike
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RMN
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Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 587
Location: Lisboa, Portugal

PostPosted: Thu 3 Apr 2003, 18:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed that's a new one. Did you manage to figure out which program that message came from (Premiere, AVISynth or TMPGEnc)? From the broken English, I'd say it seems to be coming from TMPGEnc, but I've never come across that message.

What's your CPU? If it's a P4, do you have SSE2 enabled? I know TMPGEnc's support for SSE2 is relatively new, so it would be the most likely place for a floating-point bug.

But I guess the only way to know what that message really means (if indeed it's coming from TMPGEnc) is to contact TMPGEnc's author (or Pegasys tech support).

P.S. - What about the previous problem? Did you check the source MPEG-2 file?

RMN
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MJB



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Pensacola Florida

PostPosted: Thu 3 Apr 2003, 19:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mpeg2 source as far as checking it, the file size was 3.76 gig. The error message was generated from Tmpg.

The computer is a Intel Celeron 2.0 GHZ. It's a newer faster system that I installed all the software and RT2500 card. As far as SSE2 where is that located?

Another interesting point DVDit PE will accept a AVI file but will not accept Tmeg meg2 files. Gives the same old error message saying that a mpeg decoder cannot be found.

Thank You for your reponce.
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RMN
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Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 587
Location: Lisboa, Portugal

PostPosted: Thu 3 Apr 2003, 22:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

MJB wrote:
The Mpeg2 source as far as checking it, the file size was 3.76 gig.


The size doesn't say much about the contents. You said that, after the DVD was burned, there was a point where the image stopped and the audio continued. Play the source MPEG-2 file and see if the video stops at that point. If it does, then the problem is in the file (re-encode). If it doesn't, then the problem lies somewhere else (ex., in the authoring program). Since data on the DVD is interleaved, it's not technically possible for the image to stop while the sound continues, or vice-versa. What's happening is probably one image was repeated until the end of the movie (so it seems to have stopped).

MJB wrote:
The computer is a Intel Celeron 2.0 GHZ. As far as SSE2 where is that located?


The Celeron is not a very good CPU for multimedia (it's basically a "neutered" P4, with only half the cache). You'd be better off with a P4 (even at a lower clock speed) or an Athlon XP / MP. The SSE2 option is in TMPGEnc's "Environmental Settings" (in the Options menu).

MJB wrote:
Another interesting point DVDit PE will accept a AVI file but will not accept Tmeg meg2 files. Gives the same old error message saying that a mpeg decoder cannot be found.


Well, as discussed here, that's usually due to conflicting decoders. Since I don't use DVDit (and wouldn't use it even if threatened with torture Mr. Green), I really can't give you any suggestions. Possibly, someone in the Sonic user forums will know more about that error message.

RMN
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MJB



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Pensacola Florida

PostPosted: Thu 3 Apr 2003, 23:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's happening is probably one image was repeated until the end of the movie (so it seems to have stopped).

I verified the problem on two DVD players. Once the disc runs up to 69 mintues the video stops and the audio keeps going. When this happens the fast forward or step controls do not work. The time counter also stops.

As far as Athlon, they are out. No longer produced. The board is P4, just using less expensive CPU chip. I had the same problems on a 900 MHZ Dell System.
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MJB



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Pensacola Florida

PostPosted: Fri 4 Apr 2003, 0:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have checked the settings in TMPEGEnc. All the following are checked MMX, MMX-2, SSE and SSE-2.

I'll try and do the encode again. Maybe the system flipped out.
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RMN
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Joined: 04 Feb 2003
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Location: Lisboa, Portugal

PostPosted: Fri 4 Apr 2003, 20:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

MJB wrote:
I verified the problem on two DVD players.


For the third time: check the original MPEG-2 file. Not the disc. You already know the disc doesn't work. What you need now is to determine if the problem is in the authoring program or in the video file. Play the original video (MPEG-2) file and see if it stops at that point.

If it does, re-encode. If it doesn't, then the problem was caused somewhere during the authoring process.

Also, whenever you make a DVD, it's a good idea to first compile it to a title set (VIDEO_TS folder) and open that folder with a software DVD player (such as PowerDVD). This saves you the time (and money) of burning DVDs if there's something wrong with the project.

If you get that floating-point error again, try disabling SSE2. It's a relatively recent addition to TMPGEnc and it's possible that it still has some bugs. Note that disabling SSE2 will make encoding slower (the Pentium 4 / Celeron standard floating-point unit is pretty bad compared to the Pentium III or Athlon).

RMN
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MJB



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Pensacola Florida

PostPosted: Sat 5 Apr 2003, 0:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assumed you would know that I checked the Mpeg2 file if I didn't say I did. The file plays back fine. All the video is there. I am re-encoding, this time using Matrox IPB. After spending 14 hours encoding this 166 minute video things are getting really rediculous.

After the encode I will use DVDit to burn it to the hard disk. If the file plays back fine there, I'll send it to the DVD burner let's see what happens this time. Confused
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RMN
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Joined: 04 Feb 2003
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Location: Lisboa, Portugal

PostPosted: Sun 6 Apr 2003, 20:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the file plays correctly, then the file is fine, so re-encoding (with the same settings) should produce exactly the same file (in other words, no reason to do it).

If the error was caused by some bug in the way DVDit imported the file, then encoding with different settings might make the file work correctly.

If the MPEG-2 file is fine, then the error must have been caused by the authoring program, or it's a physical defect in the disc. If you still have the VIDEO_TS folder used to make that disc (or the DVD image), you could try recording it to another disc, to make sure it wasn't a problem during recording. I find this unlikely, though, if it was a defect in the disc it would also affect the audio.

Usually, it's a good idea to do things like this:

  1. Encode the video to MPEG-2.
  2. Play the resulting MPEG-2 file (using a software DVD player such as PowerDVD or WinDVD) and make sure it has no errors (if there are errors, then there was a problem in encoding).
  3. Author the DVD, and compile a Title Set (VIDEO_TS) folder.
  4. Play the Title set folder using a software DVD player, and make sure it plays correctly (if it doesn't, there was a problem in authoring).
  5. Record it to a RW disc, and play the disc on a set-top DVD player. If it doesn't play correctly, there was probably an error in recording. I suggest using a RW disc because this way you can re-use it even if it has errors; naturally you can also use a R disc.
  6. If everything worked correctly, record the final DVD-R (or DVD+R) copies. Make sure you enable verification; in my experience, about 1 in each 20 discs has errors after recording (and this is for good brands like Maxell and Pioneer; some no-name brands have errors in 15% of discs).

RMN
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MJB



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Pensacola Florida

PostPosted: Mon 7 Apr 2003, 19:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

I catured the clips again. Redit, encoded to Matrox IPB. Verified the file. Burned it.

Now I think I know the problem. DEFECTIVE DVD's. The video now stops at 37 minutes and the audio keeps going. Were the video stops is just about at the 50% mark of the entire production.

I'm doing another burn. Hopefully this entire 25 pk of DVD's isn't bad.

Thanks Mad
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MJB



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Pensacola Florida

PostPosted: Tue 8 Apr 2003, 2:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crying or Very sad Well once again, I verified the IPB file which you know is in a AVI wrapper. Once imported to DVDit i played it there, no problems. The second burn came with the same problem. Video stops at the same mark.

I will try another Avisynth to Tmpg and try again. I'll have to install Power DVD first. I'll let you know what happens next.
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MJB



Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Posts: 33
Location: Pensacola Florida

PostPosted: Tue 8 Apr 2003, 17:17    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used the Matrox File Coverter to make the IPB file a Mpeg 2 file. DVDit won't accept that either.

I loaded DVD Maestro and It cannot load the MPEG2 file either. It says Invalid media type. Also when DVD Maestro boots up it says a decoder cannot be found so real time preview will not work.

I have these Decoder messages coming upo in both DVDit amd DVD Maestro. I have Power DVD intalled and the Ravisent DVD Player.

I've been to Sonic.com and there's no answers there. This is getting to the point where that Phillips DVD burner/SVHS deck for $999.00 is starting to look good.
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RMN
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Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Posts: 587
Location: Lisboa, Portugal

PostPosted: Tue 8 Apr 2003, 18:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Er... if both DVDit and DVD Maestro reject the file... then how are you making the DVD? Or does DVDit accept the AVI file, but not the MPEG-2 file?

If Cinemaster (Ravisent) is correctly installed, DVD Maestro should give you the preview. You don't really need the preview (you can simply compile to a title set and play it with Power DVD - takes longer but it's more reliable anyway). But you do need to be able to load the file. Note that the file must be a real MPEG-2 file, not an AVI file that uses MPEG-2 compression.

DVDit will accept AVI files, but in most cases it will try to recompress them. I know there's a customised version od DVDit (that ships with some Matrox cards) that will simply extract the MPEG-2 data from Matrox "MPEG-2" AVIs, without recompressing (this is probably the version you have). You can easily tell if it's recompressing by the time it takes to import the file.

What brand is your media? From what I've read, Maxell is the one with the best compatibility. I use mostly Pioneer, and I get errors on about 4% of the discs. This is for 2x discs, recorded at 2x. I suspect that if you record discs at a lower speed (ex., 4x discs recorded at 2x, or 2x discs recorded at 1x), they will have less errors.

Set-top DVD recorders are great... if you don't really care about the quality, and don't want to make menus, etc.. If you want some control over the final product, they're a waste of money.

RMN
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